Ep: 10 Service Provider Boundaries: Avoiding Whale Clients and Bad Advice with Emily Mathis
“Ultimately it makes way more sense to make the business work for you.”
Emily Mathis
Let’s be honest — this episode is part hot take, part therapy session, and part “can we please stop pretending we like retainers?”
I sat down with Emily Mathis to talk about what really happens when you’ve built your business around one big client, the panic that hits when that rug gets pulled, and the identity crisis that follows when you realize you hate calling yourself a coach but you also can’t stomach being called a “virtual assistant” anymore.
We covered everything from Taylor Swift’s engagement (yes, we left that in) to how neurodivergent brains handle (or don’t handle) burnout, consistency, and structure. This one’s messy in all the right ways — you’re going to feel seen.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
The chaotic pop culture moment that derailed the start of our interview (Swifties, unite)
Why both of us have complicated feelings about “retainers”
The real risk of having a whale client and why “secure” income isn’t actually secure
How overdelivering becomes self-sabotage when you’re neurodivergent
The weird middle ground between strategist, coach, and done-for-you implementer
How to build a service business that actually honors your energy, not just your bank account
Our strong opinions about Beatles, Elvis, and mediocrity being called “genius”
A nerdy side tangent about email platforms (and why Flodesk finally got it right)
Rethinking “Coaching” When You’re a Tangible Thinker
I’ve always hated being called a coach. It’s not shade — some of my favorite people are coaches — but that label doesn’t feel right for what I actually do. Coaching feels mental. I’m tangible. I want to pull up your spreadsheets, fix your systems, and get your offer ecosystem functioning.
That’s why I loved this conversation with Emily — because she’s the same way. She’s the person who listens to your idea and says, “Okay, let’s make this real in 30 days or less.” Not the “hold space” type, but the “let’s map your brain dump and make it a system” type.
This whole episode is basically a case study in how so many service providers outgrow the titles they started with — VA, OBM, coach — and have to invent something new that actually fits their brain and business.
When Retainers Start to Feel Like Handcuffs
Emily and I have both had those moments — the retainer that seemed “stable” until it suddenly wasn’t. The client who said, “I’ll need you all year,” and then was gone by July.
We both realized that stability for neurodivergent entrepreneurs isn’t about sameness. It’s about clarity and scope.
We talked about:
How to hold your boundaries when a client ignores your contract
Why long-term retainers can quietly drain your energy (even when they pay well)
Why “done with you” beats “done for you” every time when your energy fluctuates
The power of project sprints and 30-day turnarounds
If you’ve ever felt guilty for not wanting to build an agency or stay stuck in retainer land — this one’s your permission slip.
The Great “Flodesk vs. ConvertKit” Debate
Of course we couldn’t have a whole episode without geeking out on tools.
Emily helped me move from ConvertKit to Flodesk after finally realizing their ThriveCart integration was real. It took her asking, “Okay, but why do you want to switch?” for me to admit, “Because everyone on Threads is doing it.” (We love self-awareness.)
We broke down what actually matters when choosing your tech stack:
Ease of use over hype
One less zap = one less headache
Beautiful design counts as a business decision
Choose based on your energy and maintenance capacity, not “best practices”
Chapters
00:00–04:00 Pop culture chaos and coloring books
04:40–09:30 Taylor Swift engagement meltdown
13:00–16:00 Hot takes on The Beatles, Elvis, and mediocrity
16:00–22:00 The creation of Sold Out Services and why it’s a true hybrid
23:00–28:00 Whale clients, burnout, and rebuilding from zero
29:00–33:30 Contracts, boundaries, and overdelivering
34:00–37:00 Why “coaching” doesn’t fit everyone
38:00–47:00 Finding your real role and what you actually do
49:00–55:00 Tech talk: ConvertKit, Flodesk, and shiny object decisions
56:00–01:00:00 The “sell your damn service” pep talk
Resources & Mentions
About the Guest
Emily Mathis is your go-to for getting your tech & system projects done. She builds client-centric backends for coaches & service providers for increased revenue and retention without the tech headaches.
Connect with Emily
Threads: @_emilymathis
Instagram: @_emilymathis
Website: https://strategicempact.co
Interested in Being on the Show or Working with Emylee?
Are you a service provider with a bold perspective to share? Apply to be a guest.
Ready to transform your service into a productized, scalable offer? Apply for Sold Out Services.
If you’d like to see a library of all published episodes in a gallery with easy-to-find links to all listening platforms be sure to check out the Sell The Damn Service Episode Library.
